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[QUOTE]Originally posted by mattias:
"that would be true had he been talking about freedom. i guess telling a fascist to shut up is even more ironic and stupid though, so i take it back".
Mattias - you are so rude and I fear, very ignorant. You have no understanding or appreciation of the VIRTUES of a free society like America. Why don't you go back to socialist Sweden or alternatively go and live in a society that denies individual rights like Cuba or Iraq etc., where you live by permission of the state and your sole purpose of existence is to serve the state - perhaps then you would appreciate your freedom.
For the record, I believe in the absence of physical coercion, where no one , especially the government, has the right to initiate the use of physical force against an individual citizen. I believe in individualism, freedom of expression, the voluntary exchange of value for value for mutual profit (capitalism) and guaranteed individual property rights - since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.
I believe that the sole purpose of a government is to protect those rights.
Contrast my values with those of National Socialism, Mattias.
I resent your stupid, offensive accusation aimed at me (and Roger) especially at times like these.
[This message has been edited by Dominic3 (edited October 11, 2001).]
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mattias:
Roger wrote: I saw nothing that Dominic wrote that was offensive or out of line.
Mattias replied: That tells us more about you than about me, right?
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Oh, please. Look, Mattias, I know you think putting "New York, NY and Stockholm, Sweden" next to your name is supposed to add a certainly 'worldliness' to your views, but it really doesn't. You are just a simple guy with a simple guy's opinion, no matter where you are sitting at a keyboard. As such, your opinions aren't so much more enlightend or sophisticated that you can afford to tell anyone else to shut up. It's just that simple.
Beyond that, your attempts to justify your actions based on something that you can't even begin to prove about Dominic are the very foundation of the fascist belief that you condemn. You proceed with persecution with no evidence other than a divine instinct that you are correct and that your opponents are wrong and should be restrained and controlled in their actions because you don't agree with them. If that isn't facism, then I don't know what is. Personally, I think you owe Dominic an apology, even if you don't agree with him.
Roger
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Everyone seems to have strong opinions. That's what I'd expect from filmmakers. But lets discuss them in a civilized manner, no?
I think the discussions on the forum tend to be mostly technical. There are a lot of things to think about regarding filmmaking that aren't technical per se.
Another sad thing about this tragedy, holy war, is that someday Hollywood will probably make a movie about it staring Matt Dameon or something... I hope not.
Peace,
Madrone
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I viewed this topic post as a "script premise".
My original response was to give a possible bigger picture explanation as it related to your original topic premise.
I believe Islamic teachings don't really like Movies because they can't control what the eyes are seeing.
I can respect that. Parents in this country worry about the exact same thing.
And this country, in the name of "freedom", has allowed marketing to kids, with an occasional boundary added, but only after intense protestations.
Perhaps documentaries on how people in the Afghanistan can survive by living on a mountain top are would be the best purpose of a film or video exchange.
I'm pretty blown away that people can survive by living in mountainous regions and lead a fulfilling life.
And I respect them a hell of lot for that, uh not the terroists, but the vast majority of people who live in that region.
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Alex
[This message has been edited by Alex (edited October 11, 2001).]
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alex:
Perhaps documentaries on how people in the Afghanistan can survive by living on a mountain top are would be the best purpose of a film or video exchange.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Now that would be interesting...and, to dare to bring this back to S8 topics...I wonder if there are any S8 filmmakers in that region...
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Uh, guys, maybe we should stick to talks of Super-8 filmmaking on this board and leave the political ramifications of what happened on 9/11 to some other board...
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I must say that i am very surprised with many of the things said here, the most moderate i found was alex's. Film-making for peace is an erroneous venture for many reasons, one of which is subjectivity. American views of other cultures are very u.s.a orientated. This can be seen in the clusters of rubbish being produced in hollywood, most of which i am positive the CIA helped write. Australians, and many other cultures, view such films as nauseating, not only for the terrible scripts, but also the obscene waste of money. Imagine how a person would feel watching this crud, when their life and happiness is controlled largely by the people who finance such films? There are super 8 and other medium film-makers in Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and most countries in Africa. One reason we see little of their work is because westerners consider anything produced by "religous fanatics" to be propagandist drivle controlled by anti-democratic movements. For the same reason people in the middle east have little tolerance for anything produced by "american democracy fanatics" full of anti-non christian propagandist drivle. The best thing film-makers in both countries can do is accept that every film is subjective to what the writer, director, and producer feels.
I would have loved to have argued with almost everyone in this post, but the length would have been too much and off the subject. Support diversity in global Film-making by asking web pages to enable foreign film and language downloads. language surely does'nt restrict film?
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I believe India makes somewhere around a 1,000 feature films a year. For a while, in the 70's, I think they made more feature films per year than the USA.
Our Media tends to be proud of what we export,
proudly exhorting how popular our shows are worldwide.
Somehow, the same Media finds very little room to import shows and movies from other lands.
But then again, where we would find the room to put such movies, we'd have to bump such classic American fare as Survivor, The Mole, SPY TV, Big Bother, Temptation Island, Elimidate-DELUXE!, The Great Amazing Race, and about ten other reality shows I don't feel like looking up in the TV Guide.
Perhaps our shit doesn't stink because we're too busy flinging it far and wide.
I wonder if anyone left Canon 1014's in Afghanistan after being brought their by our military and for documentary news shows in the 80's?
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Alex
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i think there are two wonderful ideas there:
1. taking super 8 cameras to film what is going on in the rest of the world. i recently learned from an interview in a french magazine, that k40 was the film stock of choice during the decolonisation period for european film makers filming wars of independence from the side of the african nations, because the governments assumed it as an 'amateur' medium (even in 16mm), and you didn't have to put your name on the mailer, just an address. so the chances of having your films confiscated by the lab was much lower.
(apparently in the late 50s, france and england had a mutual agreement: england would confiscate any algerian neg footage sent for developing in london; france would confiscate any neg footage concerning cyprus sent to paris).
2. i never thought about the afghan super 8 scene. if we want to do something for peace and mutual understanding, maybe there is some way to get super 8 movies made in central asia by local people out, and organise showings in the west?
if anyone has any information or leads that could help put something together along these lines, i'd be very interested to try and set something up. if so, please post here, or e-mail me off list.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr Blackstock: There are super 8 and other medium film-makers in Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and most countries in Africa.One reason we see little of their work is because westerners consider anything produced by "religous fanatics" to be propagandist drivle controlled by anti-democratic movements".
Mr Blackstock, another reason is that governments of the countries you mention censor and punish criticism and political insubordination - there is NO freedom of expression in the countries you list. Imagine a woman living in Afgahinistan or Iraq or Cuba who decides that she wants to make a personal super 8 movie and not adopt the government line, what chance does she have or anyone else for that matter within that country to express themselves creatively using the medium of film? She'd be lucky if she just ends up in prison.
Surely Mr Blackstock you do not support goverment oppression denying individuals the right of freedom of speech & expression?
I think most people on this list would eagerly support seeing genuinely independent super 8 films produced from the countries you mention, however ,I am sure they would draw the line at wanting to watch state "sponsored" propaganda (in the same way that watching a current western government TV commercial is of no value).
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